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Why Haven't Countach Values Climbed Like their Supercar Contemporaries

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Supercars' started by Rossocorsa1, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior
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    The input we are missing is what the Mimrans or others may have put into the company after purchase. The numbers are fairly clear on the purchase price and the sale price. But, there may have been more put into the company by the Mimrans, or others (debt) during the time they owned it. Without this information, it's hard to tell what or who was profitable or getting over on whom at the time of sale.
     
  2. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior
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    #77 LC3929, Feb 25, 2019
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    Your figure corresponds to what I remember. And I rerember nothing about a possible bankcruptcy. There was no discussion of that in 1987, IIRC. Back then, I was wondering why such a name is sold at a quite cheap price. But what did I know, I just had left school.
     
  3. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior
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    Very good point. In the end, this discussion leads to nowhere.
     
  4. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
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    Another one is Maserati. Alexandro Detomaso bought that company for $1 IIRC.
     
  5. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior
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    This might have been expensive, however, depending on the company's financial situation (see post 76 of this thread).
     
  6. vfinaldi

    vfinaldi Formula Junior
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    Thanks, but I don’t believe the discussion leads nowhere. If that’s the case, why are you posting? Already we have new sourced information on the actual sales price, as well as anecdotal information directly from the Mimrans. In my opinion, even without definite conclusions, the discussion still leads to a greater understanding of the brand and events which brought it to its current market position. All very interesting in my opinion and well worth the discussion.
     
  7. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 Formula Junior
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    Future potential is often a much great factor than profit in the sale of a company so it’s likely that both the Mimrans and Chrysler both thought they were getting a great deal

    At the end of the day it is the Lamborghini brand that has proven to be the valuable asset through all of these sales, despite whether or not they were profitable. Ultimately, with the right timing and capital, Audi has been able to take full advantage of this.
     
  8. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior
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    The events which brought it to its current market position? See post 82.

    Feel free to continue. Maybe best in a new thread, because we went OT. BTW I am more interested in the cars.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Indeed.

    Remember, this is what was reported in the Press, as Patrick Mimran said to me, nobody ever spoke to him directly to affirm the details of the sale of Lamborghini to Chrysler, until I contacted him in 2016.

    @ the right venue in the near future there will be a definitive piece on this based on well-presented documented information from sources beyond reproach.

    Chrysler thought that Lamborghini was an attractive proposition so they were willing to proceed to acquire 100% of a now-thriving company.

    Back on track to before this thread was derailed by all manner of non-Countach chatter, I can say that 2 notable Countach deals in progress reassure me that the future value of these cars as compared to their contemporaries looks bright.
     
  10. SingleSeat

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    Maybe this will help.
     
  11. PineChris

    PineChris Formula Junior

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    Dont you EVER contradict the all knowing and all involved Sackey!
     
  12. EarlyCat

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    Skip the jabs everyone and stick to the discussion.
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    If it contained the names of the people that you tracked down & befriended and Lamborghini's balance sheets circa 1987, it would be very useful.

    I welcome contradictory views and enjoy debating them, no worries.

    Agreed.

    Back on topic - one reason that the Countach's values have languished somewhat compared to it's Supercar contemporaries has been the lack of an abundance of positive press coverage in the past.

    There are a few people who are working to change this and I do believe it will have a positive effect on values.

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  14. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula Junior

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    These days, there's no such thing as an "undervalued collectable", IMHO. The market is well researched, and sets the appropriate price. And to me, it looks like for most of the cars built between 1960 and 1980, the price is trending down. Perhaps that's partly due to a hot stock market, or perhaps due to all the shiny brand new objects coming out annually in 500-car lots from all major automotive manufacturers, which creates a substitute product class to many B-class collectibles.

    As far as driveablity goes, it is only one part of the equation. A Ferrari 250 LWB California, to drive, definitely has more in common with a period truck than with a period Mercedes 300SL roadster (just based on my experiences) yet it's almost 10x the cost to buy. People like what they like.

    The preceding wisdom combined with $3.50 will get you a latte at Starbucks, so value it accordingly.
     
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  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    People do like what they like, indeed.

    I wouldn't say that values for 60s to 80s cars are trending down per se, I would say that their steep upward trajectory of @ 3-4 years ago has lessened, and in the case where some cars were exuberantly overvalued, they have corrected, but overall, many great cars continue to appreciate albeit at a more reasonable pace, and my sales numbers reflect this, as do those of the auction houses.

    One thing to note that has particular relevance to this this thread's topic is, certain cars go in and then somewhat out of favor or popular interest, accordingly we may see the Countach increase in value on a rediscovery basis that has nothing to do with the state of the economy or markets overall.
     
  16. staatsof

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    Well each to his own but tis correct. The steering on the non PS Espadas IS truck like at low speeds and that is indeed what causes the frame around the steering box to crack.
    But to me it's a much more comfortably pleasant if not quite as exciting a car to drive than the Countach is. Very easy to get in and out of, hauls a lot of people and luggage yet is remarkably low to the ground and quite exotic looking to boot!
     
  17. LC3929

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    #92 LC3929, Mar 4, 2019
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    Well, then the owner of a non PS Espada must avoid low speed driving :)
    I may add that I used to own a non PS early Jarama and I can't complain about the steering.
    But I must complain to have given away the Jarama.
    The Espada is a phantastic and very exotic car, that is unquestionable!
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    When I look at the Countach, and climb into experience it, comfortably pleasant are the last two words that come to mind, nor do I want to experience those things in a Countach. The Countach was created to rock your world, to assault your senses, to be a viscerally exciting adventure every time, automotive anarchy on the road from a bygone era.
     
  19. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie

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    There is no comparing the steering of a Countach and Jarama. I have both. Neither have PS. Countach is so much easier at a stand still. Which make sense given that there is little weight on the front end of the car.
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point.

    When they say the Countach is hard to steer, perhaps it could be that they are driving an example which has a steering rack that is not functioning properly, or perhaps the tire pressures are below optimal. My experience with all Countachs from LP400 to 25th is that they are easy to steer and the steering feedback is beautifully reassuring and kart-like once on-the-move, just like you'd expect a Supercar to be.
     
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  21. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer Formula 3
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    Agree - and I loved my LP400. But the only thing I did never like was the "truck-like" long path of each gear.
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Formula 3
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    Agreed. It's a toy not a real car. My calculation was/is that it gave up too much of being a real car in that bargain compared with other cars. Every person will see that differently because they have different motives. I noticed that Harry thought the seats in that periscopa were comfortable. I'm not sure driving it in the rain on those tires was all that comfortable though! :D That could become a very expensive mistake quite quickly.
     
  23. staatsof

    staatsof Formula 3
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    Yeah, gearboxes ... I understand why they had too do their own on the Muira, Countachs, Diablos ... etc but couldn't they have just stuck with a good ZF for the front engine cars?
     
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  24. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer Formula 3
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    Driving an LP400 in the rain can be very tricky. Did it in the night around Goodwood House in 2000. A nightmare...the front screen became fogged due to the humidity and the A/C is not effective in a Countach, no streetlights around in that area and then the not-so-good-headlights of the car!
    Sollution was: to open the drivers door, sitting on the sill and driving the car approx. 25 miles through the heavy rain to Portsmouth. My tailor made tuxedo was gone...
    But what a memory!
    And - the small XWX are getting "soapy" in the rain and that doesn`t help either!
     
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  25. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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    Another option is to not drive these cars in crappy weather. They’re not Honda Accords, after all. An LP400, I would imagine, is both a show piece and a brilliant experience in ideal conditions. At least for me, that’s how I would treat it.
     
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