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To tell or not to tell?

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Discussion (not model specific)' started by roytoy2003, Jan 26, 2009.

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  1. #276 nsxnick, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
    They had to have been unaware.... what dealer in his right mind would buy a salvaged Diablo for $128,000???

    Legally speaking you're probably in the clear with your signed PO, but ethically... you definitely perpetuate the sleazy used car dealer stigma.
     
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  3. "They had to have been unaware.... what dealer in his right mind would buy a salvaged Diablo for $128,000???"


    It's that sense of amazement that the dealers seem to be missing. Maybe they've just seen everything and are jaded.

    A kit car front end? Salvage and clear title? Are you kidding me? I could see buying this car at the right price for any of a number of reasons - build a fun track car, build a one off street car, get into a great exotic inexpensively and DIY it back to good condition, etc. But ... who thinks this car is anything other than a mess?
     
  4. Great first post by Jim! Based on the paperwork, I agree that Roy probably just didn't do his homework, and he got screwed. One man's pristine is another's piece of garbage, it is a term based on opinion.

    This has taught me a couple things. I never knew cars were traded around wholesale so much. Also Carfax is almost worthless. If a title can get washed that easily, there is a problem with the system. Once a car has a Salvage title it should remain that way permanently.

    I think you're doing the right thing Roy by getting rid of the car and moving on with life.
     
  5. if a vintage Ferrari was in a racing accident and then restored back where it got 100 points at Nationals could it not be called "pristine"?
     

  6. Roy if you want lets take this to pm and talk over there as it will only hijack this thread, maybe you should stick to the subject in hand
     
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  8. #281 WCH, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
    "if a vintage Ferrari was in a racing accident and then restored back where it got 100 points at Nationals could it not be called "pristine"?"

    "One man's pristine is another's piece of garbage, it is a term based on opinion."




    Rob, different situation. The racing Ferrari needs to be fully and fairly described - exactly as you did. Suffered significant damage at Le Mans in 19XX, rebuilt to pristine condition by .... No problem. A seller just calling it "pristine" without more - not someone I'd bother with, I can hear the laughter spilling over from Vintage. Also, the number of racing Ferraris is small, the cars for the most part known and experts fairly easily reached.

    I can't call this dispute, who's right, who's wrong, but based only on what's here ... IMO ... SCC's ad speaks for itself. Roy's passing this car along to a customer speaks for itself.

    The folks who get my money wouldn't bother telling me this car is "pristine" - because they want my business in the future, because they know I'd probably figure out the car's true condition when I had a proper PPI done, and because they likely wouldn't bother with this car in any event. I don't even want to name in this thread the dealers I've worked with, would hate for a search to turn up their names in this context. None of the reputable, high end folks would claim to be perfect, all make mistakes, but "pristine" and "discerning eye" are not phrases you'd hear them use in connection with this example.

    Edit: I could see someone arguing that "pristine" means "over-restored." I could see "pristine" applied to a car that is in some ways incorrect. But a street car that's been wrecked and apparently improperly rebuilt? Not a difference of opinion, just wrong IMO.
     
  9. #282 gday, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
    We need to start a glossary:

    "CARFAX Negative" = "Salvage Title issued but has been (temporarily) washed clean in some states - act fast!".

    "Pristine" = "the kit car parts look fantastic".

    "oxidized wheels" = "wheels are perfect - if you overlook the chemical spill".

    I'm sure I've missed some...

    -mick
     
  10. An excellent thread for potential Private Buyers and Private Sellers.

    If two experienced Dealers can intentionally or unintentionally muck up a $100K+ deal as badly as this one, what can a Private Buyer or Seller expect? You can hope you are lucky, you can expect to get screwed.
     
  11. I think SCC got screwed on the initial purchase. It seems they didn't know what they bought, all they did was a walkaround PPI and it sounds like Ferrari people did the walkaround. As with any PPI, always best to have somebody knowledgable inspect the car in question. Cats Exotics never even saw the car, they shipped it to Orlando for PPI. That is when the SHTF.

    I will never, ever buy an exotic car without laying my eyes on it and driving it before any PPI is performed.
     
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  13. #285 darth550, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
    Bada BING!

    I'm not the only saying that Roy, with his history of bulldozing over "Theft car" ex-salvage notations has not learned his lesson. Luckily for Jim L he wasn't the buyer for if this was reversed, Roy would have already publicly posted the c-o-n-f-i-d-e-n-t-i-a-l nature of the transaction just to save face.....

    Maybe I don't get it.... is repeating recklessness just a "Lamboguy" thing? AFAIK, Roy's latest clusterf*ck here is a perfect illustration of the AA definition of insanity. ;):)
     
  14. I'll assume that you are an accomplished Ferrari owner. Unless a person is, a quick drive is better than no drive. The PPI is only a part of the PPI equation.

    Who performs the PPI? Does the Inspector have prejudices? How do you get a Buyer and Seller to commit to an appropriate, independent PPI? Who oversees the processes of inspection in person and has the experience to do so? If there is a PPI, and damage occurs, who is responsible? Who is responsible for knowing who is responsible?

    Add another 100+ questions, then and only then will you have the best chance of avoiding a costly fiasco.
     
  15. Wow, was I wrong.
     

  16. Dude, you should see if Rob will let you sponsor this forum with a Stalking Roy section. Now you are whining about him using someone elses PICTURES? Get a life, everyone is soooo tired of reading your drivel.
     
  17. #289 titanium360, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
    Dude did you see my post #275 on this thread:

    "Roy if you want lets take this to pm and talk over there as it will only hijack this thread, maybe you should stick to the subject in hand"
     
  18. #290 nsxnick, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. #291 roytoy2003, Jan 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2009
    Thank You for your response and aid in showing both sides of a tragic sad case. I as you, Jim, will adress the issues and provide documentation as you have. After that I, as you am done and will let it run it's course. The vehicle is CURRENTLY for sale via my web site and e-bay. I still have no problem with sending the vehicle back to you, (currently in our warehouse in Portland) and ONLY expect the refund of the purchase amount of $128,000.00 I will take all other exspenses incurred in this situation as a learning lesson and go on with my life. That way there is no additional costs to you what so ever.






    ATTACHED ARE OUR FULL FILE RECORDS AS WELL.

    AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST ANY DEALER THAT KNOWINGLY PASSES ON A CLEAR WASHED TITLE THAT HAS PREVIOUS SALVAGE STAMP HAS A DUTY TO THE PUBLIC AND THE INDUSTRY TO HAVE THE TITLE RE-STAMPED AND CORRECTED....NOT TO SAY OH WELL IT IS A CLEAN TITLE NOW, NOT MY PROBLEM....THAT IS MORALS AND WHAT THIS ALL STARTED WITH.




    ROY CATS
    PRESIDENT
    CATS EXOTICS
     

    Attached Files:

  20. I'll assume you've never purchased an exotic.

    Here's how it works. Buyer sees a car. Contacts seller. They go thru the basics, including verifying the seller will let the car go to a PPI. The potential buyer arranges a PPI with an independent mechanic, and generally transportation to and from that facility. Most shops that do a PPI have a fairly extensive checklist of things they inspect, so the buyer understands what he or she is getting. Since the car is traveling via insured carrier to a reputable (insured) shop there is very little liability. Based on what the PPI shows the buyer can proceed with purchase, negotiate a different price based on issues discovered, or walk and shop for another car.

    By the way I LOL'd at this statement: The PPI is only a part of the PPI equation.
     
  21. You need to scan the documents, Roy. Do you have a scanner?
     
  22. Wow Roy that new Ebay ad was obviously made so you can establish a very low value on the car. Is there a lawsuit instore?? You could have made an attempt to easily mend some of the smaller items and taken better pics.
     
  23. I don't think it makes a difference, whether it is a price reduction or he has the maintenance done it is still a cost.
     
  24. You bought a low mileage 6.0 for 115k? With a wing?! Nice...
     
  25. Not so cool, posting the prior owner's name and address and signature on the internet. Just my humble opinion.
     

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