Motegi test results Gallardo vs Merci Vs 360 | LamborghiniChat
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Motegi test results Gallardo vs Merci Vs 360

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Discussion (not model specific)' started by G-force, May 4, 2004.

  1. G-force

    G-force Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2002
    1,703
    so california
    Full Name:
    wayne skiles
    Posted on another board by Mako (the bannished one)

    Twin Ring Motegi 4km Road Course results - Best Motoring April 2004

    1:40.9 - Ferrari 360 (F1)
    1:40.5 - 911 Turbo (Tiptronic)
    1:39.6 - M3 CSL (SMG II)
    1:36.9 - NSX Type-R
    1:36.6 - Lamborghini Murcielago (6-speed)
    1:36.0 - Lamborghini Gallardo (6-speed)
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
    Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    1,107
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus

    Wayne
    On the street IMHO none of the above means much. There are very few who own any of these cars who use them to their full potential on the street. On the street the only reason to own any car is it does something for you.
    On the track it's another story and those who are leading in F1 and FIA sportscars are driving Ferraris. So far the Lambo Murcie GTR has DNF's once finished 3rd once, behind two 550's driven by amature drivers and "temorally" withdrawn from competion.
    As it's been for almost 100 years the only Lambo's that will be at LeMans this June will be in the car park not on the track.
    Once again so what? If you don't care about racing and there's no reason you should, drive whatever makes you happy.
    You do.
    I do and guess what,the people who drive Ferrari's do as well.
     
  3. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    LOL, you are as predictable as a broken record Jimmy. Your fantastic tales of Lambo's racing woes mean nothing to me, particularly when it's so clear that at the moment off the dealership floor Lambos are throwing a beatdown to the 360, 360CS, and 575M.

    Nope, not talking about Prodrive, or any of the other privateer teams you love to bring up with their witches brew of modifications that they can apply to the cars, I'm talking about the total dominance, on every track test I've seen to date, of current STOCK F-cars and current STOCK L-cars.

    Tired of your nonsense regarding racing heritage. I'm sure that would go over great while sipping tea with Schumi, but in the real world, and yes, on the street, the two L-cars on that list are pretty dominant.

    It's a shame your anti-VW bias doesn't allow you to see it. Too bad the Gallardo doesn't have a "Ford" emblem on it I guess...:)
     
  4. G-force

    G-force Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2002
    1,703
    so california
    Full Name:
    wayne skiles

    We ...you and I ...don't buy Formula 1 cars to drive on the street or take to the track on the weekends. WE buy 360's,360 Cs. etc While I love to watch Formula 1 and I enjoy seeing Ferrari post win after win.... when I'm done watching the race I get in my everyday driver and occassional track car the Gallardo.
    The purpose of this post was to show a comparison of cars sports cars enthusiasts can buy and drive. Given that..what does anything in your
    post have to do with this post? Who cares about the Murcie GTR as it relates to what we can buy and drive everyday??
     
  5. 6.0 se

    6.0 se Formula 3
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 26, 2004
    1,721
    Atlanta,ga. area
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    A.J.
    Here we go again.
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Okam
    I'm not saying that the street versions of the G and the Murcie don't beat the 360, 550, and 575, in numbers. They do. All I'm saying is that the only reason to own any car is because YOU like it. If these numbers are important to you fine. If you as Wayne does like a G buy one. I think it's great when someone is lucky enough to own a car that makes them happy whatever it is. If you'd rather own a 575 buy one of those. I've said many times I think the Murcie (a slightly used one) is a lot more car than a 360 for similar $ but once again that's what I think not what the people who love their 360's and still wait in line to buy them think.
    As for VW the fact that I agree with their CEO that their first quarter results were "miserable" has nothing to do with my view of their product. Indeed I just bought a Tourag for my teenage daughter. I also like the new Bentley coupe and very well may buy one.
    As for racing heritage I enjoy owning it and driving it on the street. You think it's nonsense. That's fine. Buy and drive whatever makes you happy.
     
  7. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
    Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    1,107
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Wayne
    You as someone who has driven race cars likely can use the G's capabilites vrs the 360 on track days. You drove both and picked the one you like. The fact that you picked the faster car is important to you.
    Other things are important to the people who buy and enjoy owning 360's.
    I still think there are very few owners of any of these cars who ever get anywhere close to any of their capabilities. Some do but many don't.
    One minor point I do own ex race cars that I drive on the street. (LeMans not F1)
     
  8. zjpj

    zjpj Rookie

    Nov 4, 2003
    0
    USA
    I definitely agree with Napolis. Buy what makes you feel good. People who line up to buy 360s do so because the car has a "soul" that appeals to them. It certainly appeals to me. I also agree that I would buy a Murci for the money. I wouldn't buy a 996 TT, an even better bang for the buck, speed-wise, because in MY opinion just a little more bland. But, that's the point. The only important fact is our own personal opinion. It's how the cars make us feel. I would say that most people don't buy cars based on laps times but based on how the car sings to their passion. If your heart flutters when you ease into a G's driver's seat, then that's the car for you.
     
  9. scycle2020

    scycle2020 Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2004
    433
    potomac
    what do you mean by " its so clear that at the moment off the dealership floor lambos are throwing a beatdown to the 360 360cs adnthe 575m? talk about nonsense, how about your sentence structure?... please restate this in clear english!!!!!!
     
  10. C. Losito

    C. Losito Rookie

    Dec 12, 2003
    6
    Metro St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Chris Losito
    Again with the numbers...

    Right off the bat I'm a bit disappointed in the 360, but it did have stiff competition. I'm a bit tempted to ask why a 360CS wasn't used, what with the M3 CSL and NSX Type-R competing, but I won't. Other than that, I can't argue.

    It seems the Lambo folks are all the same. It's either about the numbers or the image, or both. For me, it's about the sports car. Check my profile for a list of wanted Ferrari's and you're likely to find what you (and Alan, and Mako, and...) would consider "slow" cars. How many 21 year old guys want a 330GT? You know what? I also want a Porsche 912. Dear God, why would ANYONE want a 4-cylinder ~100hp Porsche? I don't feel the need to out-accelerate anyone, nor do I feel the need to bench race $180,000 cars.

    Buy cars for yourself. Drive what you love, love what you drive, and to each his own. :)
     
  11. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    That sounded a lot better in my head when I wrote it than it does re-reading it now. And I'm a writer by trade, lol! :)

    Here's something a bit better:

    Based on every single article, every person I've talked to, every video from Europe, Japan, and the US, the stock Murci stomps the stock 575M into the ground, and the stock Gallardo stomps the stock 360CS into the ground.

    Straight line. Curves. Tracks. Ovals. Street. The Ring. You name it.

    So my thought is that it's wrong to say that simply because the Murci GTR has teething problems versus a car that teams have had half a decade to get used to (550/575M race variants) that doesn't translate into anything meaningful.

    It's like saying just because Ferrari's F1 car dominates F1, that their street cars must clearly be superior to every other marque's. Wayne did nothing in his post but repeat some information that the "OTHER ITALIAN" section of F-chat would find useful and fun.

    James on the other hand searches for any and all possibilities to respond to positive Lamborghini track reports with his generic and oh-so-tired "But the Murcie GTR sucks!" routine.

    Yawn.

    Godforbid the GTR ever wins a race Jim, your life won't have meaning!
     
  12. G-force

    G-force Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2002
    1,703
    so california
    Full Name:
    wayne skiles

    I did that too. The GT-40 and my Lola T-70 open car but that
    doesn't relate to most people and the point of the post.
     
  13. TTBADBOY

    TTBADBOY Rookie

    Jan 22, 2004
    35
    Have we come so far as to proofread each others' posts? Weak. I understood it to be a valid response to Napolis (which,by the way,made no sense as the Fia cars have next to nothing in common with the stock street cars mentioned above.) I do agree with buy what you like though,thats what makes this so much fun.

    BTW,we almost made it a week without the Lambo vs Ferrari bashing.

    Joe
     
  14. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    Again, this is typical F-car owner defenisveness.

    Wayne didn't say a damn thing in his post about the results above. Did he gloat? Did he come here (in the OTHER ITALIAN section no less) and say "Hahahahaha another beatdown for F-chatters to stew over!"

    Nope.

    He just wanted to pass along some info.

    The numbers are the numbers, and BestMotoring has some hotshoes that can throw cars around their domestic tracks pretty well. For the OTHER ITALIAN faithful, it's a great post.

    Ask yourself this:

    If the 360 would have won, would you have come here, and then posted the same "Again with the numbers" blather?

    If not then you acted purely out of F-car bias, and got defensive for no reason.
     
  15. C. Losito

    C. Losito Rookie

    Dec 12, 2003
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    Chris Losito
    I'm flattered that you think I'm an owner :). Had the 360 won, would this have been posted?
     
  16. dave_fonz_164

    dave_fonz_164 Karting

    Mar 11, 2004
    78
    Montreal, Canada
    Full Name:
    Davide Giuseppe F.
    the guy just wants to bust chops, being a Ferrari forum and proving that his car is better than an F car, its an inferiority complex. u know ur cars faster, u dont have ti post lap times from bestmotoring
     
  17. GDautosport

    GDautosport Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    34
    north jersey
    Full Name:
    George
    This post did not say anything about buying cars, so i dont understand why any of you brought up 'buy whatever car you like", racing heritage and all this other irrelevant stuff.
    He simply stated the times, which show that the gallardo was the best. It has nothing to do with looks, heritage, tastes and etc.
     
  18. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    Yep.

    Know why?

    Because this is the OTHER ITALIAN section, and there were Lambos in the test.

    Again, no one on the Lambo side said anything derogatory towards the Ferrari in the test. Until James posted.

    So for once the L-car faithful will not be taking the blame for this thread disintigrating.
     
  19. C. Losito

    C. Losito Rookie

    Dec 12, 2003
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    Chris Losito
    I call BS on that one, because Mako would ignore the results.

    And if you would sit there and tell me that BB didn't post this with a half-grin on his face...
     
  20. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    Ok so now we're getting to the bottom of it.

    Either the board is still "Mako/Allan biased" and sensitive to that kind of incediary post, or they're "Ferrari biased" in which case they shouldn't be perusing and getting upset over posts in OTHER ITALIAN.

    Regardless of what Mako may have thought when posted that info, or whether or not Wayne had a big smile on his mug when he clicked "submit", the bottom line is that no one said anything inflammatory.

    The results are positive for Lambo.
    This is the OTHER ITALIAN section of F-chat.
    It seems that A + B = C.

    I don't see the issue here, where's the harm?
     
  21. C. Losito

    C. Losito Rookie

    Dec 12, 2003
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    Metro St. Louis
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    Chris Losito
    This thread "disintegrated" before BB ever hit the post button, and you know that. Post the lap times for just the L-cars then. Oh wait, can't do that, gotta rub it in (in passive-agressive mode, no less). ;)
     
  22. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    Chris, seriously, why are you so upset about Wayne's post? A few people, including myself, could flame you into oblivion right now, and have the support of 80% of the readers of this thread, but I won't be one of them.

    I'm just going to try to help you see that there was no malice intended.

    Omitting the other cars' results would be lame, what's the point? As a Ferrari fan, you should take comfort in the fact that Ferrari has yet to answer the threat of the Gallardo, and you should understand that obviously things will get very interesting the second the 420 debuts sometime in 2005.

    Embrace the results like a man, understand that yes, for now, the Gallardo is a far faster car than the similarly priced 360 or 360CS, and hope that Montezemolo reloads and conquers in the next round.

    Don't kill the messenger. Even if in this case you don't like him! :)
     
  23. C. Losito

    C. Losito Rookie

    Dec 12, 2003
    6
    Metro St. Louis
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    Chris Losito
    Ok man, you got it. :)

    I'm not upset with Wayne, or his post. I AM a little peeved about the way you treated Napolis, who by the way is the true Ferrari defender in this thread. I simply came in to reflect upon the numbers that were posted, see the first paragraph of my first post. Sure, after that I fired a little shot across the Lambo owners bow, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Don't flame Napolis for his defense of Ferrari (and indeed, don't expect no response from owners), and I won't point out the injustices that I see.

    I think those 80% of readers you mention would agree that posts like this are begging for a retort from the Ferrari faithful (this is Ferrarichat). Now, these kinds of posts are most certainly welcome, even encouraged, but lighten up on Jimmy.

    If you don't want F vs. L discussion, just don't post stuff like this. Otherwise, take what you get and keep it civil.
     
  24. Okam2000

    Okam2000 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 29, 2004
    18
    I would agree with everything you said, save the part about James. That guy repeats his anti-GTR nonsense, outright NONSENSE, on every carboard possible, at any mention of Lambo.

    I grow weary of it.

    If you want to attack the Motegi test, great, bring it. But don't inject bull$hit information about LeMans, which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread whatsoever. If James sees a thread in OTHER ITALIAN that says "Murci GTR dominates Ferrari!" ok fine, then bring it, that's the right forum for his comment. Not a thread about a street car test.

    He wasn't defending Ferrari at all, and if he was, it was from a phantom attack that occured in his mind, because no one mentioned any malice with Wayne's original post.

    I personally think the numbers are great. I'm already curious to see how the 997, the 420, the next NSX, and other cars coming in the next year or two perform against the Lambo threat.

    We should be relishing the fact that Lambo is currently equivalent/superior to Ferrari, because it certainly hasn't always been that way. The more competition the better. People should not be discouraged from posting track times from controlled environments, particularly in this section of F-chat.
     
  25. G-force

    G-force Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2002
    1,703
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    wayne skiles

    Chris L. .... I didn't have a grin when I posted it but I admit I've had SEVERAL laughs at the responses.
    I can't attest to Makos motivations. I know he has an NSX. I saw how that
    fell in the results and was surprised. I learned to respect that car a litlle more...maybe?.... I'm on car #62 with my insurance company so I've been
    into cars for longer than you have probably been alive!
    Point?..... I don't play in the Ferrari/Lambo flame wars. What's the point? It takes more than a number,a magazine article and certainly a
    post on a chat board to change my opinion on things I've experienced
    over the years.
    The information is posted for "closed minded" peoples consumption
    in hopes that they might consider objectivity when they discuss other marques this is after all posted in "Other Italian". That means other than Ferrari. If people aren't interested in other marques or objective comparisons
    then maybe they should just read the Ferrari areas?
     

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