Ferrari to Lambo not Lambo to Ferrari | LamborghiniChat
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Ferrari to Lambo not Lambo to Ferrari

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Discussion (not model specific)' started by BULL RUN, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. BULL RUN

    BULL RUN Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2004
    755
    If there was ever a question as to which car is the most desired, I've never heard of anybody trading their Lambo in for a Ferrari, but many Ferrari owners trading UP to a Lambo.

    Anybody out there to counter this claim?

    BTW I'm not a Ferrari basher. I love them too.
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
    Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    1,107
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I'm not sure what #'s you're looking at but the facts are in
    04 Ferrari sold 4900 cars and that is the max number they can make.
    04 Lambo sold only 1400 and they can make 5000.

    One F dealer I know returned 40 deposit checks for 360's.
    New G's and Murcies sell for under msrp.

    Unless you have a great relationship with a F dealer you can't get a 430 for years with out paying way up for a used/flipped one.

    Anyone who can write a check for 155K/ 255K can drive away with a new G or Murcie today.
     
  3. ryalex

    ryalex Formula Junior
    Consultant

    Aug 6, 2003
    960
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    I don't think total sales numbers were really relevant to what Italia was saying though, Jim. He was only referring to instances where Ferrari owners trade in for a Lamborghini - and that he hadn't heard of many or any trading in their Lamborghini for a Ferrari. An argument of total production numbers is not the core of this argument.

    I think taking a survey of Lambo dealers/salesmen and Ferrari dealers and asking them if X gets traded in for Y would be the quickest way to get a sense of the frequency. My guess would be that Ferrari trading for Lambo is more common because Lambo is seen as more of a niche product with a [now lessened] reputation for being more eccentric/finicky to drive - people might start with a more manageable Ferrari.
     
  4. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 Karting

    Nov 18, 2003
    102
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    I think production numbers is very relevant in this case. By pure stat, there are more Ferrari owners out there than Lambo owners, hence, by shear numbers, there should and will be more Ferrari owners that traded down to a Lambo. What should be calculated is: the percentage of Ferrari owners that traded down to a Lambo/Overall Ferraris made vs. the percentage of Lambo owners that traded up to a Ferraris/Overall Lambos made. And this should only be limited to single ownership cars, not the second or third owners as there will always be more Ferraris out there than Lambos, new or used.

    I am not a Troll either, I too love the pre-Diablo Lambos.
     
  5. bentasm1

    bentasm1 Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    415
    I hear far more of Ferrari owners trading to Lamborghinis. Sometimes you hear of a Lamborghini owner adding a Ferrari to the stables, but never trading for it.

    -Ben
     
  6. whart

    whart Formula 3
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    2,219
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    I honestly don't think trading X for Y tells you anything about the merits of either car. I take jim's point about comparative demand, but i don't think that tells you much about the respective merit of the cars either, unless you believe that popularity is the measure. As to pejoratives of trading "down" to a Lambo, Anthony C., i think your comment only speaks to your attitude and not the cars themselves.
     
  7. bob f430

    bob f430 Guest

    Oct 7, 2004
    6
    i dont think a move from f to a lambo or vise versa can be considered a trade up or down. to me its a lateral move. driving these auto's is a passion for most, not a purchase. each one brings a different driving experience to its owner and thats whats motivates us to purchase what we do. i hope to experace them all. it's about the passion, the way we feel when were behind the wheel. the rest is social BS
     
  8. Michael RPM

    Michael RPM Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2002
    315
    Oak Brook, IL
    Full Name:
    Michael Wogronic
    I agree with bobf430; they ARE different driving experiences. However, as I have worked for both a F dealer and L dealer, there was only one Lambo to a Ferrari trade in the 5 years at the Ferrari dealer. By comparison, the number one car traded for a Lambo is indeed a Ferrari, probably followed distantly by 996 Turbos. The other thing you have to keep in mind with production numbers is that before the Gallardo was introduced, the Murci (and Diablo before it) were in the mid to high $200k range, while Ferrari always had less expensive priced models that more people could afford.
     
  9. Clax

    Clax Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2002
    594
    Personally speaking, I'm glad that Lambo only produces 1400, as opposed to 5000. As an owner, the more exclusive the car, the better. I like the fact that they are not nearly as common as Ferrari's. And, I like the fact that not everyone has the same taste in cars. Sales figures shouldn't matter to the buyers. It should only matter to the shareholders and dealers.

    Anyways, to answer your original question, I have personally not seen a Lambo owner sell/trade for a Ferrari. However, I have personally seen 3 people I know sell/trade a Ferrari for a Lambo.
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    The overall numbers simply speak to the overal demand.
    The price they sell for over/under msrp. futher speaks to overall demand.
    Sales figures, poor ones in the case of Lambo, are good for those who want Lambo's.
    The good news for those that want a new G or a Murcie is that they can get one any time they want under msrp.
    It also does make them more exclusive.

    Hey I'd buy a new Murcie before I'd pay over msrp. for a 430 but it looks like there will be more who pay up for a 430 than will buy new Murcies and that is pretty wild. (Whether or not it's stupid is a separate issue)

    If your looking for a new Murcie Spyder there's a Yellow 6 sp in Sundays NYT's.
    The 03 Black 10K Murcie is also still at Kerbeck. Kenny?

    Michael
    True but as it was 400 murcies and 1000 G's that is no longer true esp as G's sell for less than 360/430's. The number of 360/430's the market seems to want is pretty impressive IMO.
     
  11. 911Fan

    911Fan Karting

    Apr 15, 2004
    82
    Southern California
    I don't follow the production argument either. My sense is that more Ferrari owners "graduate" to a Lambo than the other way around. I'm also starting to think that Lambo has a higher proportion of enthusiast or car-guy owners than Ferrari.
     
  12. robiferretti

    robiferretti Karting

    Oct 31, 2003
    151
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    2 different cars, ferrari's look good and sound nice, lambo's are more raw and performance oriented
     
  13. Napolis

    Napolis Formula 3
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    Oct 23, 2002
    1,107
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Agree. I also think Lambo's are more cutting edge design. They look great in colors that would look silly on a Ferrari.

    Will you be with the Lambo's at the NYAS? I'l be there on the night of the F party.
     
  14. G-force

    G-force Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2002
    1,703
    so california
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    wayne skiles
    Exactly! And now more reliable also.
     
  15. amenasce

    amenasce Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2001
    2,105
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    This mambo Jumbo is BS . If u hear more pple trading F to L its because there are probably 6 times more F owners than L owners. And also because Murcielagos are cheap compared to a 360 in perf/value.
     
  16. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,230
    Leawood KS/ South FL
    Full Name:
    Thomas P
    man, i could never decide.....

    it's like having to choose b/w janna jameson, the stunningly slutty porn-star and heidi klum, the beautiful and wholesome supermodel....

    so i go back and forth.....
     
  17. markymark360f1

    Dec 15, 2004
    7
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Wouldnt Price point have an impact to this argument.
    How do we analyze this relationship?
    How many 150k brand new ferraris are there?
    How many new Gallardos are out there and what do they sell for?
    Assuming a brand new ferrari is at a higher price point i.e. stradale, 360 spider, throw in the Modena, wouldnt that be a trade down to Lambo.
    Or would you compare just modena to gallardo when making this analysis?
    If I eat a $6 dollar burger at chilis and get the same one next week at Carls Junior am I trading up or down?

    Do i gain something by spending less at CJs or am I stupid for eating at Chilis?

    To each his own. We can justify anything and tell ouselves that we made a good buying decision.

    I do like both cars. But something about an FCar that I have dreamed about.....

    Out
    MM
     
  18. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 Karting

    Nov 18, 2003
    102
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    For the same reason that Italiacars feels that going from Ferrari to Lambo is "trading up" as in his initial post. It is all a matter of opinion.
     
  19. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    0
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    I'd trade my Countach in on an F50 or a 57 Testa Rossa in a heart beat :)
    Even trade of course LOL
     
  20. judge4re

    judge4re Karting

    Apr 26, 2003
    99
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Speaking as a shareholder, sales figures do matter.

    Ferrari is running at 100% capacity utlization.

    Lambo is at 28%.

    Which do you think is profitable?
     
  21. rodsky

    rodsky Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2003
    315
    Los Angeles
    Given that both Companies can theoretically sell approximately 5000 cars per year and Ferrari does (and could sell more if it wanted) and Lambo doesn't - is somewhat an indication of their general desirability. Ferrari is more desirable to those that can afford to buy $160K - $300K Italian sports cars. Also, there are far fewer Lambo's on the road than Ferrari's by at least a factor of 5 to 1 - so if there is a trade, it is 5 times as likely to be a Ferrari owner trading for a Lambo. The fact that there are fewer Lambo's sold - and therefore some say they are more exclusive - is sorta backwards logic given that Lambo wants to sell as many as Ferrari does but cannot.

    Now having said that - they are both great cars.
     
  22. ciao baby

    ciao baby Karting

    Feb 15, 2004
    81
    DC<---> MB
    Full Name:
    Michael Karagiannis
    The only way to trade up between F-car and L-car is to have both :)
    why choose
    I Like Steak (Lamborghini) and Cheesecake (Ferrari)
    ///MK
     
  23. ryalex

    ryalex Formula Junior
    Consultant

    Aug 6, 2003
    960
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    To defend Lambo, any arguments of production capacity are a bit unfair. After all, Lambo released the Gallardo ONE YEAR AGO and went from making 400 cars a year to 1400 in ONE YEAR. To say they *should* be expected to multiply their sales by 12 in 5 quarters is absurd. That they tripled it in one year deserves kudos IMO.

    IMO, Lamborghini is really at a stage of development right now where Ferrari was about 12 years ago. One year after Luca de Montemozolo took over it doesn't seem they were so healthy themselves, probably not until the 355 and then 360 were being sold.

    In 3-4 years I think they'll be where they should be. I also blame the slow sales on customer unfamiliarity and that Lambo is really playing *more* of a niche market than Ferrari with their edgier shapes and styling. Ferrari has been playing to the middle rather strongly with the softer 360 and the blah blah 612. Now, this 430 is a *strong* statement from Ferrari that seems to be well-received so who knows.
     
  24. robiferretti

    robiferretti Karting

    Oct 31, 2003
    151
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    will have a murci and a Gallardo at the show this year, and i will also be attending the eastside house benefit on the 23rd. drop me a PM we can meet up
     
  25. teterman2004

    teterman2004 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2005
    0
    Eielson, Alaska
    Full Name:
    BriBud
    I recall an article in an English mag that compared a Muira and a Daytona. The Muira was totally cutting edge with its mid-design, low center of gravity, etc, but a bit of a beast, heavy clutch, etc. . . The Daytona? nearly as fast, not as wild, refined, more predictable, etc. . .

    Seems like the two cars were pretty comparable, and for the dreamers among us, they certainly were! BUT. . . .

    Crash a Muira and try to fix it. Compare that with a Daytona. Now, I know we're comparing SUPERCARS, sure, but Ferrari certainly has been better situated to fix its cars over the years, eh?

    Lambos are AWESOME, certainly, but Ferraris are AWESOME and a bit more RELIABLE, too (as supercars go, anyway. . .)

    but what the hell do I know, I own a VW
     

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