Ben and Bill Hart are going to like this ! | LamborghiniChat
News

Ben and Bill Hart are going to like this !

Discussion in 'Lamborghini Discussion (not model specific)' started by ralfabco, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    3,575
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu
    I spoke with a salesman about what was available in "inventory." This was with a well known factory authorized L dealership. The salesman knows I am a little familiar with Lamborghinis. - A little more than the average buyer who is only concerned with color, and what type of aftermarket wheels and 10K radio he can buy ? I am "not" trying to be a smart A** here.


    A creme puff 6.0 was priced the "same" as an 02 Murcie with low kilometers !


    Actually he claimed the 6.0 market was heating up ! I would "assume" the Murcie market for the hardtops is going to continue to slip ? What is new and is on the horizon that concerns the Murcie ? You have the relatively new E-Gear (yuck - no thanks / for the old farts and old posers that don't know how to shift), the Murcie Roadster, and the inevitable bump in hp that will come with the fielding of the upcoming R-GT, and also a future SV. This will continue to push the earlier cars to the back of the room. Please understand that I actually like the Murcie. I am NOT taking a cheap shot at the car. It does deserve to get a mouthful of Tofu though !!!


    Remember the 6.0 is basically a totally different Diablo. It was built only 1 year. It "could" hang up there for awhile ? Perhaps it will develop a cult following ? LOL.
     
  2. Greg G

    Greg G Karting

    Jul 5, 2003
    157
    northern New Jersey
    well IMHO, the 6.0 is the nicest Diablo of all.
     
  3. whart

    whart Formula 3
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    2,219
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Ralph- when i bought the 6.0 a few months ago, i was in the same zone, give or take a few bucks (or a fancy car stereo) of an '03 Murcie, and went with the Diablo, not because it was the better investment, but because its italianate style appealed to me more. The fact that Murcies are depreciating comes as no suprise; whether the 6.0 holds a special place in the market because of its uniqueness-and inbetweeness- only makes it sweeter. So, i guess you are right! I like it...
     
  4. mattymouse33

    mattymouse33 Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    896
    We'll set aboot ye!
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Yes indeed, I would have it over any Murcie or any Lambo for that matter, except the new barchetta!!!!Green of course....
     
  5. mattymouse33

    mattymouse33 Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    896
    We'll set aboot ye!
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Nice decision Mr Wicked, whats your 6.0 L like, spec wise?

    Also noticed you have a scooby, I've just purchased one for the track so getting it seriously modified at the moment for a bit of racing.

    I cant afford the stunning 6.0L so just waiting for a nice VT to crop up then I'll be happy.
     
  6. whart

    whart Formula 3
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    2,219
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Car is entirely stock, MattyMouse, and if you search thru some of the threads here, you'll see pics. Its a candy apple red/white interior, with exposed carbon wing.
     
  7. 993 guy

    993 guy Karting

    May 21, 2004
    67
    Bergen County NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric D
    Oh common Bill, your interior isn't "white", it's more a "crema". White sounds so Miami Vice for such a beautiful car like yours. ;-)
     
  8. lamborghinikid

    lamborghinikid Karting

    Oct 22, 2004
    116
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeff Haney
    #8 lamborghinikid, Feb 16, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yep , i made the same decision as well. At first i was in the market for a metalic black on red murci. Saw the 6.0 in person and did a total turn around. I am with bill on this one. When i saw it in person it was total italian in design and did a total flop on color and car. Forgot the black on red murci and went with a yellow on black fly yellow 6.0. Here she is a few weeks ago right before i took her out for a spin ! Whether i keep this exact car forever or not i will alway's own a 6.0 !
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. JeffB

    JeffB Karting

    Jan 16, 2004
    95
    Northville, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jeff B
    Check out this beauty...

    http://www.lamborghinidallas.com/detailfeat_dal.asp?id1=557

    I called on it. Asking price is $195k. Haven't shopped around in a while (depressing Michigan winter), so I don't know if that's a good price or not. Anyone?

    The idea of selling my Spider and getting this has crossed my mind, but something scares me about pre-Murci Lambos. No warranty, no Audi influence, I've heard a few horror stories, etc... I don't want to spend $200k on a car and get stuck with a ton of problems.

    Jeff or Bill, either of you guys experience anything unsatisfactory about your cars after purchasing them?
     
  10. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    3,575
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu
    Dear Jeff - that is the car ! I have not heard of a 6.0 listed so hi lately ? They are obviously asking more money for the 6.0. Perhaps even more bizarre, is the fact that it is during the winter. Is'nt the market even hotter during the spring ?

    Jeff - I like your gym !! LOL. Nice set of wheels !!!!!!!!
     
  11. slm

    slm Karting
    Giallo Subscribed

    Dec 5, 2004
    104
    Ozark Americana
    Full Name:
    Steve M
  12. JeffB

    JeffB Karting

    Jan 16, 2004
    95
    Northville, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jeff B
    Hey Ralph, thanks. :) What do you mean by "gym" though?

    I imagine they're asking so much bcz the car has only 1729 miles. Don't see 'em with so few miles much anymore, but $195k still seems high.
     
  13. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    3,575
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu

    JeffB

    Look at the beauuuutiful gym in the right hand corner of Jeff Haney's car !

    If he only could have moved the lens a little to the right. LOL.

    - -

    1729K miles is basically a brand new car.

    195K (they obviously will take less) - You save just over $100,000.
     
  14. whart

    whart Formula 3
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    2,219
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Mine came from MC I as well, with 1283 miles. Ask was 199k, price got adjusted thru a combo of negotiation, and trade-in on my Gt2. As to the market, assume that its 10 -15k dollars less than that for a car with more miles, etc. But, how quickly will that difference be made up in service costs?
     
  15. bentasm1

    bentasm1 Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    415
    The 6.0 is an excellent slightly-depreciating asset. :)

    -Ben
     
  16. BULL RUN

    BULL RUN Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2004
    755
    Funny how some think the Audi Influence is a good thing....Why do you think the Diablos are holding up? NO AUDI INFLUENCE!
     
  17. JeffB

    JeffB Karting

    Jan 16, 2004
    95
    Northville, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Jeff B
    I'm not too familiar with what Diablos are doing, but like I said, I've heard horror stories about them having problems & being pains after being purchased. With no warranty remaining, it's a legit cause for concern when spending $200k on a car. That's why I asked Bill & Jeff if they've had any issues after purchasing theirs. I'd love to hear first hand accounts from Fchat members on their experiences.
     
  18. lamborghinikid

    lamborghinikid Karting

    Oct 22, 2004
    116
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeff Haney
    Hey Ralph , I would have bought a better gym but I spent all of my cash on the car ! LOL JeffB , as for my car there is nothing like it that I have ever owned. I had a freak water pump leak last summer which is very uncommon on any diablo but sometimes it does happen to any car but that is a total freak thing. Even my service man couldn't believe that it had went bad. Very, very uncommon. When I bought my car, even though it had a good record history, I took it straight in to Super cars international when I went on vacation and had Robert Ball and his staff do a complete service on the car from top to bottom. Complete valve job and top side engine service, new front right shock , which is known to leak, complete fluids, all filters , brakes, ETC. I told Robert that when I got in this car if I wanted to drive to the store or across country I wanted it to be new and RIGHT. When I bought the car it had right at 4,000 miles on it. I think now it has about 6,000 on it. It had been an absolute pleasure to own. There is nowhere in the world that I cant drive this car and KNOW that I will get there. It is as reliable as anything on the road. It drives much better than you could ever imagine especially with the adjustable ride suspension and due to myth for those that don't think the diablo is very nimble in the corners it is very impressive. There is a very noticeable difference in the 6.0 power and the earlier VT's. It is a lot stronger on the bottom end. As a "decent driver" I personally am holding this car back. Ben is actually into the exotic warranty business and I bet he could give you a few more details than I can about the reliability but beside the occasional shock leak I have heard nothing but great things about the 6.0. Where are you at ? How close to Atlanta are you ? I would be glad to let you look my car over and take a spin if you need help deciding ?" As Robert told me one time ... If you ever sell or trade that 6.0 for any other lambo you are trading down ! "
     
  19. BULL RUN

    BULL RUN Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2004
    755
    Basically from about 98 up they got rock solid, the 6.0 does have Audi influence but it's the last Italian influenced Lambo that was made, and therefore more valuable in allot of circles. The Murcielago and Gallardo are fine cars, but don't have the WOW factor of past Lamborghini's IMO. I'd take the 6.0 over the Murcielago in a heart beat, they'll be plenty of them made, but no more Devils!
     
  20. Juice It

    Juice It Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2002
    444
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Full Name:
    Jeff

    This is the 6.0 that the wholesaler was trying to get 175 or so a few months back. I heard it was sold to LOD. The thread should still be around, there were a few pics as well. If I remember correctly they were out of Florida.
     
  21. bentasm1

    bentasm1 Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2004
    415
    The 6.0's hold up very well, as long as you maintain them, and dont count shock leaks as a problem. :) The shocks do NOT leak if you leave the shock system alone, so just leave it alone. While they are reliable, with any hand built vehicle, any parts replaced are expensive. Typically sensors are about $500 installed and other stuff $1500-$7500 or so when stuff breaks.

    The 6.0 has a heavy Audi influence. I like it.

    -Ben
     
  22. whart

    whart Formula 3
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    2,219
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    JeffB: I didn't answer your question on reliability for a simple reason: i have not really driven the car enough, or owned it long enough, to determine that. I will tell you what i did do, though, because i had similar apprehension and heard plenty of Lambo horror stories over the years, hadn't had much respect for the dealers, and by comparison my ownership experience with quite a number of ferraris so far (6) has proved virtually flawless, better than my experience with more "rational" cars like MB, BMW, Volvo, etc.
    First, the car i bought was alleged to be flawless, and so far as the PPI could determine, was in fact what was represented:- it was like a new car.
    Second, i found someone- in my case Wil DeGroot, located about 2.2 hours away, in New Jersey, who has a substantial and very real reputation as an independent Lambo mechanic of the first order- i wanted to make sure that the inspection, and any further work during my tenure was done by someone who knew the cars.
    Finally, i bought a warranty from Ben's company.

    The only other things i can tell you so far are:
    the driving position is the best i have encountered, although that might be a subjective thing, and depend on size, and build of the driver- i am 6'1" and a not insignificant 235 lbs.
    the car is exotic in a way that only my old 512BBi was- in fact, it is more like the boxer in some ways than any other ferrari i've owned. It looks, feels, smells and presents in a sort of "old school" italian in a way that the 550/575 and Murcie do not.
    It's not a small car, but the cockpit feels like just that; a no-nonsense place to get driving done. And, unlike the Porsche GT-2 which had many attributes of a racing car, the interior is an aesthetic joy, not a disappointment, which i found to be the case with the black/black Murcie i looked at:- too sterile for my taste.
    There just aren't that many of these cars, a good thing and a bad thing, i suppose. While there is plenty of competition at this used 6.0 price point, it may be the most over the top car among them. Granted, some will be quicker, or run the stoplight race better, or be more tossable, but for that GT experience, it makes a Maranello (which, by the way, i loved, had 2 of 'em) seem almost pedestrian.
    Time will tell on the reliability front, but, as i said on this board, i can't remember being this excited about a car, well, since....

    PS. MC I does have a rep for good Lambos. Randy McCall there was a delight to work with. Bargain shopping these cars will likely not save you any money in the long run, and may be the more expensive route. You are free to check mine out if you are in NY on business. Regards.
     
  23. robert biscan

    robert biscan Karting

    Jan 17, 2003
    229
    Nashville and Palm b
    I tried to get a 6.0 but didn't. They sure sound great and this thread is getting me excited again. Bought another F car that I wanted and did the safe thing.
     
  24. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru Formula Junior

    Dec 14, 2003
    916
    Fl
    Full Name:
    John Temerian

    That was me! The car only had 600 miles when we had it. We were going to buy it for our collection but it would be odd with the only non black lamborghini out of the bunch. If anyone knows of a black black 6.0 with under 1000 miles tell me!

    -jt
     
  25. damcgee

    damcgee Karting

    Feb 23, 2003
    157
    Mobile, AL
    Full Name:
    Andy
    #25 damcgee, Feb 17, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I decided to look up this old article from Motor Trend comparing 6.0 to the 550:

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0008_lambvsfe/index.html


    Stats Page: http://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0008_lambvsfe/index3.html

    Here is the text:

    Road Test: Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 vs. Ferrari 550 Maranello
    Ever ridden 1035 Italian horses?

    By Mac DeMere
    Photography by Antonio , Tom Salt, Charlie Turner & Charlie Magee
    Motor Trend, August 2000
    Hang around automotive journalists long enough and you'll get involved in a heated argument on earth-shaking topics such as "Is F1 superstar Michael Schumacher a better driver than NASCAR's mega-talented Jeff Gordon?" Each is spectacular in his own arena. But even if you could find the answer-and you can't-would it matter?

    A comparison between the Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 and Ferrari 550 Maranello is a lot like the Schumacher-Gordon debate. There are more differences between the mid-engine all-wheel-drive Diablo and the front-engine rear-drive 550 Maranello than between a Dixie cup and Hoover Dam: Both hold water, but that's about it. The main things these mega-dollar exotics have in common are their Italian origin, mountainous pricetags, and V-12 engine configuration. Plus an exceptional ability to make big speed.
    How big? Example: The Lambo hauls its nearly 3600 pounds to 60 mph in an afterburner-like 3.4 seconds. Example: I've tested a bone stock Maranello to a top speed of over 194 mph. Big speed indeed. That's what hyperexotics are about.
    After one of many 190-plus runs in the 550 around a high-speed oval, I slowed to the banking's neutral speed-about 160 mph in this car-and rested my hands on my thighs. Then I drove about a half mile without touching the wheel, managing the Maranello's direction solely with the throttle: Less gas to turn right, more to turn left. "Look, ma, no hands!" at 160 mph. The Maranello was extremely stable at that lofty pace.
    When I briefly touched 180 in the Diablo, it was beginning to get a little light in the tail. I didn't have the opportunity to run it to its top speed, but Lamborghini says it's gotten a hair over 200 out of the 6.0. The Ferrari can't match that without a gale-force tailwind-although nearly 195 is damned impressive. For a leather-lined gran turismo. On street tires. With a CD playing.
    Another interesting Maranello moment was captured by an on-board "Motor Trend Television" camera, as I tried to put top speed testing in perspective: "The difference between running almost top speed-right now, I'm showing 180-and running true top speed," I said to the camera, "is the difference between standing at the rail of the Empire State Building and standing on the ledge on the other side." While recording that short bit, I made eye contact with the camera no fewer than four times and took my right hand off the wheel to gesture a couple more. Later, while rambling on about how I was seeing 200 on the speedo, I twice looked deep into the little glass eye, but kept both hands on the wheel. The 550 Maranello gave me that kind of confidence in its high-speed stability.

    At a race pace on the road course, the mid-engine Diablo was surprisingly easy to drive and-I'm thankful-quite catchable. Thanks largely to its much wider rear tires, it tends toward understeer, which is much easier to handle than oversteer. The Diablo 6.0 doesn't support the "rear-engine cars are twitchy" stereotype, while the Ferrari needs its electronic traction control to help the driver avoid spinning out under power.
    One of my enduring memories of the Diablo 6.0 was when I damn-near spun it on my second lap on the unfamiliar test track. I went around a corner that I recalled as leading onto a straightaway and gave it full throttle. But instead of a straight, I was greeted with another, tighter, corner. I backed off the gas, which, of course caused the tail to step out. When I came into the pits, I told Lamborghini test driver Mario Fasanetto: "She got a little loose in that right-hander." (The combination of NASCAR TV coverage and satellite dishes now means serious drivers around the world know the meaning of "loose.") "Yes, we noticed," Fasanetto said between clenched teeth.
    By the way, let me qualify a mistake in last month's issue: I thought the official name was "Diablo VT 6.0." "VT" (which, in this case, references its viscous differential), was also the name of a previous Diablo model. Expand the Diablo VT's displacement 285 cubic centimeters, and it loses the VT designation and becomes the "Diablo 6.0." Sorry for any confusion.
    By now, you've gathered that both of these Italian stallions are way, way, way fast. But which is really fastest? It's this simple: In any acceleration contest, the Ferrari driver would see nothing but Diablo taillights-until they disappeared from sight. Thanks to enhanced longitudinal traction from its all-wheel drive, a 65-horse advantage over the Ferrari (550 to 485), a slight weight advantage, and a tall first gear that moves the Diablo's awkward 1-2 shift past 60 mph, the Diablo is the quickest-accelerating stock production car Motor Trend has ever tested.
    Its record-setting 3.4-second 0-60 run was 0.8 second quicker than I managed in the traction-limited Ferrari. In the quarter mile, the Diablo holds the edge 11.8 at 120.9 to the 550's 12.5 at 116.9. We couldn't do handling or stopping distance tests on the Diablo, but I'd wager it would handily top the 550 Maranello's marks for 0.93g lateral acceleration, 68.1 mph in the slalom, and 114 feet for 60-0.

    Inside, this pair retains the very-similar-but-totally-different paradox. Climbing into the Diablo is only slightly less difficult than sliding into an Indy car (and getting out may be harder!), while getting behind the Ferrari's wheel is Lexus SC 400-easy. Both are plagued with shift gates, which slow cross-gate changes without preventing-and perhaps encouraging-missed gears. Tall and/or heavy drivers have to crane their necks to the right to clear the Lambo's roof, while the Maranello has headroom to spare. The Diablo has perfect visibility if you're driving flat-out on a racetrack, but you're almost flying blind for slow-speed everyday maneuvers. On the other hand, the Ferrari is no more difficult than, say, a Corvette to dock in a parking space-although the penalty for a mistake is certainly higher.
    Both are crowded with unfamiliar-to-Americans switches, controls, and labeling of same. No complaints with the instrumentation in either. The difference in steering feel and effort is similar: The Lambo is near-perfect at a fast pace on a racetrack; where feel is important, a high-effort is more easily tolerated. The Maranello's power assist makes it a bit too light and vague for the track, but perfect for road drive anti-lock braking system was impressive on two of the three 6.0s I drove. On those two, I was able to brake remarkably late and deep into the corners without drama. However, Diablos differ from one to the next, and the third car was almost punitive about braking-while-turning. It would be futile for Ferrari drivers to try to make up under braking what they lost to the Diablo in acceleration

    VERDICT:
    Each is spectacular in an attractively different way. The reality is that, unless you take these cars to a racetrack, this "performance numbers" argument fades to the level of the Schumacher versus Gordon shouting match. Although the Ferrari isn't quite as quick as the Diablo, it still delivers stellar performance and is confidence-inspiring at hyperlegal speeds. Besides, it's far easier to get in and out of, park, and maneuver in traffic. If you were picking one to drive every day-moderately, or even assertively-the 550 Maranello is the hands-down winner. If, however, you're looking for maximum accelerative performance and crave the ego-boost of the Devil's outrageous look, the Lambo is your supercar.
    There's always been a rivalry between Lamborghini and Ferrari owners, and each is fiercely loyal to his chosen nameplate. It's quite possible that someone who lusts after one could care less about the other; all this numbers nonsense may not matter to him. I say if your first CD goes platinum, your IPO goes ballistic, or your Fortune 500-rated father goes to the big country club in the sky, buy whichever suits your tastes.
    Hell, I'd buy both.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page